Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
Episodes
Saturday May 31, 2025
Saturday May 31, 2025
Ashley Semmens is a former Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diver who served for 18 years, specialising in explosive ordnance disposal. He has deployed multiple times, including to Afghanistan, and participated in Australia's military withdrawal in 2021. After surviving trauma from an IED attack, a sniper incident, and a horrific shark attack aftermath in Sydney Harbour, Ashley was medically discharged due to PTSD. Now, he's preparing to swim the English Channel — not just any swim, but on his back, using fins. It's a fundraising mission for the Navy Clearance Diver Trust and a deeply personal journey into fear, resilience, and purpose.
In this episode, Ash opens up about overcoming fear of the water, losing close mates, post-service mental health, and how he’s turning pain into a platform for support and recovery.
Key Moments
00:00 – Ben and Tim intro the episode and Ash’s unique goal: finning across the English Channel
01:14 – Comparison to Sam Penny’s Channel swim (Season 1, Episode 27)
01:40 – Ash’s clearance diving background and fear of water after trauma
02:45 – Military and Afghanistan service; PTSD and recovery journey
04:00 – Ash joins the conversation, starts with early life and growing up in Adelaide
06:00 – Competitive swimming as a teen; early struggles and successes
07:45 – 2003: Racing against Grant Hackett at Nationals
09:18 – Backstroke vs freestyle debate; Ash’s short course gold medal (with caveats)
10:00 – Natural transition to the Navy from competitive sport
11:01 – Joining as a direct entry diver and diver vs boatswain's mate decision
12:01 – Clearance Diver selection process explained — 10 days of being wet, sandy, and psychologically tested
14:07 – What Ash learned about focus, fatigue, and resilience during selection
15:00 – 2009 shark attack incident: Ash explains what happened to Paul de Gelder
17:34 – Ash’s role in the aftermath: trauma from cleaning the boat, psychological impact
18:29 – Lingering fear of large bodies of water, even lakes
20:00 – Later incident at Jervis Bay: panic before dive leads to difficult team moment
21:12 – Realisation of responsibility and shame around not seeking help
22:30 – Stigma and lack of psychological support during service
23:45 – What clearance divers do: diving, EOD, underwater repair, and land-based ops
25:16 – How Ash ended up doing EOD work in Afghanistan despite being too junior
27:22 – Becoming the most junior sailor to deploy for combat operations in Afghanistan
28:46 – Motivation to deploy: “It’s like a footballer wanting to play a grand final”
29:00 – Getting targeted by an IED during deployment
31:30 About the Bushmaster
34:42 Pressure builds up
39:30 PTSD, cracks, symptoms and care
44:00 ‘More to live for’ – side story
49:10 Medical discharge… and there are no protective factors in the military uniform
51:00 Role identity fusion
54:30 Finning the channel- breaking it down
External Links
- Navy Clearance Diver Trust
- Paul de Gelder – Shark Attack Survivor & Advocate
- S1E27 – Sam Penny swims the English Channel
Contact Us
www.unforgiving60.com
Email: debrief@unforgiving60.com
Instagram & Twitter: @Unforgiving60
Music
With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify
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