Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
Episodes
Thursday Apr 07, 2022
Thursday Apr 07, 2022
In Ben and Tim’s book The Resilience Shield, they refer to Kev Toonen as a ‘superstar Army PTI (Physical Training Instructor)’ - and certainly when they first met him, that’s exactly what Kev was – a thought leader in the development of special operations physical capability, who helped evolved SAS training methodologies, as well as prepare the amazing Monika Georgieva (see Season 2 Episode 3 for more on Mon!) for her pioneering attempts at the SAS selection course.
Since that time, Kev has taken his passion and knowledge for human performance to clients ranging from some of Australia’s most beautiful and recognisable celebrities to elite sporting teams. In this episode, Kev talks to what he learnt from his military service, how he saw the military approach to physical training change over the years and what he currently considers the key requirements for optimising the human body.
In this first part of a special double episode, Ben and Tim chat to Kev about his background, his early years in the Army and then his time at SASR, during which he was instrumental in changing elements of the unit’s physical preparation program to better meet the demands of campaigning in Afghanistan.
4:30 Kev opens with……a sweat lodge story!
6:11 Kev’s early years – school and joining the Army (after being tricked by a recruiter!)
8:45 Into infantry corps and the parachute battalion
11:30 East Timor
16:30 The million-dollar East Timor question – did Kev make it to the Kylie Minogue concert?
17:50 Back to East Timor for a second trip (in violation of the age-old Army rule – never volunteer for anything!)
19:40 …and a third trip to Timor!
20:00 12 months out of uniform – was the grass any greener on the other side?
21:00 Back into uniform – and why?
21:30 The highs and lows of sniper course
25:00 Marriage! And a career transition to become a PTI, including reflections on the training involved
26:00 The evolution of thinking in military physical training
33:40 Getting posted to SASR in Perth
35:00 Influences at SASR, including Danny Cooper and Harry Moffitt
37:00 (Why friends shouldn’t let friends skip leg day)
37:30 Impressions of physical training at SASR, and how this changed over the period of campaigning in Afghanistan
40:10 The potential downsides of a ‘never quit’ mindset
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60
External Links
If you want some great black and white photos of Kev squatting the equivalent weight of a small car (and who doesn’t?!) check out his Insta.
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Ben Frichot - available on Spotify
Thursday Mar 31, 2022
Thursday Mar 31, 2022
For the second time Ben and Tim talk to psychologist Al Hill. The first time Ali interviewed Ben, Tim and Dr Dan Pronk…. And Ben and Tim nicked the audio!
This time around they interview Ali on ‘Stand Out Lives’. Talking ‘working from anywhere’, psychological transition and what leaders need to be aware of in this brave new world! Also- what are your moments
Ali is CEO of AFR Fast 100 company Pragmatic Thinking, Ali is a Psychologist, an award-winning business woman, an influential keynote speaker, producer and host of Stand Out Life podcast, regular on mainstream media, and a best-selling author.
4:30 What has Ali done since Christmas? More health and adventure!
08:00 How Ali manages business partner and life partner (the same person!)- and psychological transitions from work to home?
09:50 Multi-tasking is a myth… how to work from anywhere…. But not work from everywhere
15:00 How will the COVID working experiment play out? The importance of face to face working….. can we risk losing it?
17:25 What does a hybrid look like?
19:25 The new challenges for leaders…. Are there any?
24:40 Dealing with the tough stuff- having difficult conversations
28:30 How do we find the moments of magic?
31:10 Moments that matter …. Decipher these in your life. Our first sporting analogy (in this episode)!
34:45 Our second sporting conversation- on cricket and training mindfulness in order to be very attentive
38:50 Tuning into the little things…. Becoming a virtuous circle.
39:45 The author’s journey. Ali talks about writing.
44:30 Ali’s 6 must reads for 2022…. The window into Ali’s soul
48:10 How would I know I was wrong about this?
50:50 What is Ali’s powersong?
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60
External Links
Music
Mitchell Martin available on Spotify
The Externals – available on Spotify
Nick Kali- Available on Spotify
Ben Frichot - available on Spotify
Friday Mar 25, 2022
Friday Mar 25, 2022
Dean Fechner is a tough human. From a first career as an Air Force Physical Training Instructor, through subsequent work in law enforcement in places ranging from the Australian Parliament House to the battlefields of Southern Iraq, he has demonstrated an incredible amount of character and resilience. But his toughest challenge came not in uniform, but on the operating table. In this episode, Dean chats with Ben and Tim about how he built his resilience and how it was tested through the medical challenges that he has faced – and how he is now using the lessons that he has learnt through his life to help other people.
04:22 Dean’s background – joining the military, training as a sparky and then – becoming a Physical Training Instructor!
06:42 Secrets of the ADF Physical Training Instructor course – is it more than just learning how to shave your legs?!
10:00 Working as a PTI at the Australian Defence Force Academy
11:40 Leaving the Air Force and becoming one of the pioneers in the personal training industry
12:00 …and into the police force – a lifelong ambition
13:45 What are the differences between police and Defence Force training?
15:00 Balancing the competing requirements of policing – the ‘three block war’ concept
17:53 Transitioning into security roles within Courts and Parliament
19:45 Into Southern Iraq and a training role in their National Police Academy
23:50 What did a normal day in Iraq look like?
25:45 Did Dean feel he was making a difference in Iraq?
28:40 Dealing with the stressors of life in a combat zone
31:00 Over and above the meaning of the work, how important was the money?
33:00 Work after Iraq
36:00 Unexplained health issues, culminating in the identification of a massive heart blockage
38:00 ‘The Widowmaker’ – a medical diagnosis you don’t want to receive
40:10 Bouncing back – physically and mentally
43:20 How did Dean keep going through it all? Mental and physical strategies
46:25 But then things started to plateau – and the headaches began…
47:40 …which were then diagnosed as a brain tumour
50:10 The importance of hope
51:00 Breathing, meditation – and studying psychology
58:00 Breathing techniques, including from Brian MacKenzie and Andrew Huberman
1:01:30 The value of Stoicism
1:03:25 Where to from here?
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60
External Links
Dean’s current work includes his role with Front and Centre, who provide bespoke solutions and support in the areas Sales Training, Leadership Training, Client Experience, Presentation Skills and more.
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Ben Frichot - available on Spotify
Tuesday Mar 08, 2022
Tuesday Mar 08, 2022
Tom Moore is the CEO of WithYouWithMe (WYWM) a social impact company, founded by Veterans – it was started with the sole mission of solving veteran underemployment. Indeed when transitioning from the military to civilian life, Tom struggled to gain meaningful employment. WYWM now includes neurodivergent, gender-diverse, military spouses, and Indigenous populations. They support veterans and others (for free!) by offering our testing, training, and job search function (once again, for free!) on their platform to help identify their best matched career path, learn their job-ready skills, and land their first job.
We talk with Tom about his life in uniform and how WYWM delivers value to employers.
In 2019, WYWM won Deloitte’s Tech Fast 50 and Tech Fast 500 programs because of its explosive growth rate of 13,361 per cent….. unbelievable success and you’ll love the philosophies that they implement and embrace.
04:25 Tom gives his background in the Army and what led to him leaving.
06:00 Why the resume approach is broken.
10:20 Why veteran resumes are misunderstood…. And how to better represent military skills.
15:00 How to showcase how people can do things…. That people didn’t think they could!
20:20 What were the nature of Tom’s injuries?
22:55 If Tom wasn’t happy in the military why did he want to stay?
30:00 What was transferrable from the military?
35:10 What keeps Tom going through the tough times?
43:00 Founders and vulnerability, fear and focus
45:20 Is there a shift in hiring stigmas?
49:10 How does WYWM make sure that there aren’t too many generals?
Find out more here: https://withyouwithme.com
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter): @Unforgiving60
External Links
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
New tunes from And Enjoy ….. check them out on Instagram @AndEnjoyBand
Monday Feb 28, 2022
Monday Feb 28, 2022
Harry Garside is all about challenging stereotypes. So let’s start by challenging some of yours. What do you think of when you think ‘champion boxer’? Is it someone who dances ballet? Who paints their nails? Who augments their training with meditation, juggling and Schulte tables? If you answered no to these questions (or if you simply want to know what a Schulte table is!), this episode is for you. Fresh from his bronze medal performance in Tokyo, Harry joins Ben and Tim to open Season Four of the Unforgiving60 with an amazing reflection on his life to date – inside and outside of the boxing ring.
04:25 Reflections on an Olympic Bronze Medal at Tokyo
05:30 On mellowing (now wallowing!) in loss – a lesson from Tim Grover
10:45 On identity and role – how to ensure you are more than what it says on your business card
13:40 The beauty of being human – in all its weirdness and individuality!
14:40 Ballet as boxing preparation – lessons from the Gold Medal Ready Program, including ‘getting comfortable being uncomfortable’
17:30 The importance of mentors – and a close inner circle - in Harry’s life
21:00 On negativity bias
22:30 Dealing with fear
24:00 What does a normal training day look like for Harry – and how is it meditative?!
25:35 Ben asks the dumb question – what are the Olympics like?
27:41 …and did COVID ruin the experience at all?
30:15 The (semi-)mandatory U60 question – what’s Harry’s power song?
32:00 Harry’s Hall of Fame – and why Harry has these people tattooed on his leg (hint: it’s not just because they’re great boxers)
34:40 Should you encourage your kid to get into boxing?
37:52 Tim takes the opportunity to bring up the time that Ben got absolutely smashed by the great Chris Collard….
38:45 On vulnerability – there’s nowhere to hide in a boxing ring!
40:30 What does Harry need to reach his next goal?
44:30 What’s Harry reading at the moment?
45:31 How can Schulte Tables make you a better boxer?
49:05 What’s changed for Harry since the Olympics – and what’s next
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter): @Unforgiving60
External Links
Tim Grover, Relentless
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Ben Frichot - available on Spotify
Monday Feb 14, 2022
Monday Feb 14, 2022
Ben and Tim look back at 2021…. What a wild year it was and they give the key takeaways …. to takeaway!
Plus, listener and guest feedback.
** We also talk about Shannon Lemanski who on 12 Mar will be conducting the Better-at-Life Sprint Triathlon as part of the Mooloolaba Triathlon festival. This will see him attempt a 750m open water swim in combat cams, a 20km bike ride in body armour, and a 5km run with an 18kg pack – symbolising the 18+ Veterans lost to suicide in 2021.
Sponsor him at: https://www.gofundme.com/f/betteratlife-triathlon
Or learn more about Swiss8 at: https://swiss8.org/the-app
As always, please let us know what you think. We’d love to hear from you – please email debrief@unforgiving60.com.
Music … with thanks to:
The Externals … Available on Spotify
Ben Frichot from Frichot Design Factory
Friday Dec 17, 2021
Friday Dec 17, 2021
Ali Hill is a professional ‘head-mechanic’ (aka psychologist) and has worked with big businesses and small to improve performance. In this episode Ben and Tim are joined by Dr Dan Pronk to chat to Ali on her Standout Life Podcast.
We talk resilient minds and psychological drivers to being more (or less) resilient.
More on Ali Here:
https://www.alisonhill.com.au/
https://www.alisonhill.com.au/standoutlife
Our Website: www.unforgiving60.com
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn): @Unforgiving60
Music… with thanks to
The Externals and Mitchell Martin – available on Spotify
Monday Nov 15, 2021
Monday Nov 15, 2021
This week Ben and Tim cross into America and join Randy Powell and guests on the Lessons in Leadership Show. We talk leadership, resilience and how Prince Harry got shot in the bum!
Each week Randy has conversations with leaders who have started businesses, founded charities, gone away to war, endured unimaginable hardship, and taken on breathtaking challenges, and through it all developed grit, perseverance, determination, and resilience. Ben and Tim haven't done much of any of that!
Enjoy!
More on Randy here: https://randallwpowell.com
Our Website: www.unforgiving60.com
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn): @Unforgiving60
Music… with thanks to
The Externals – available on Spotify
Wednesday Nov 03, 2021
Wednesday Nov 03, 2021
This week we plagiarise some content – and have an episode without Tim! Ben was recently invited to participate in a podcast with the Mission Critical Teams Institute discussing the potential links between creativity and the kinds of people who end up in Mission Critical Teams. This is an area of significant interest for Ben. There is an old saying that there are no atheists in a foxhole - while we’re not sure about that, Ben has noticed that there seem to be a bunch of artists in foxholes! On every deployment he has been on, he has been surprised by the amount of people who start writing poetry, drawing or playing a musical instrument. This podcast explores some potential links in this regard.
Former Unforgiving60 guest Harry Moffitt chairs the conversation, which includes Ben and Professor Kate Stevens, a cognitive scientist and Professor in Psychology whose work investigates how humans interact with each other, their environment, and with technology. Enjoy!
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter): @Unforgiving60
External Links
- The MCTI website, including their overview of this episode
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Ben Frichot - available on Spotify
Monday Oct 04, 2021
Monday Oct 04, 2021
In Part B of the Hamish Blake interview we talk resilience. As well as how Hamish practices mindfulness, meaningful challenges, the mind-body connection and The Melbourne Football Club!
We also talk about how to crack open a safe!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:50 Hamish completes our Resilience Survey
06:40 Presenting the data on resilience
08:00 Resilience is more than strengthening your one-legged table
08:45 Friends v family
12:00 Picking an activity to be bad at! Enter the wheelie!
14:30 Talking status and ego & mindset
18:30 The principle of locus of control
27:00 Hamish’s advice to teenagers
31:10 Physical exertion as ‘mindfulness’
36:50 The mind-body connection…. weaving aspects together
38:50 Hamish and his relationship with The Melbourne Football Club
52:00 Hamish and safe cracking
57:30 SAS explosive calculations…. The ‘how to’ guide
59:00. On the TV show SAS Australia
External Links
Contact Us
Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Social Media (Instagram, Twitter): @Unforgiving60
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Ben Frichot- – available via: https://www.designfactory.com.au