Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
Episodes
Thursday Oct 29, 2020
Thursday Oct 29, 2020
We’ve been a little slack with the RVs this year – we’re blaming it on the fact that we’ve had a whole heap of outstanding guests, however have found a break in the battle this week to reflect on some of those conversations. During this episode, we’ve grouped a few of the recent interviews into the topic of parenting and childhood. Over the past few weeks, we’ve learnt a lot from Steve Biddulph, Rick Pedley-Smith, David Gillespie and Marc Mexsom on what right (and wrong) looks like when it comes to raising children and in this RV, we look back at some of the big take-aways.
As always, please let us know what you think! Good, bad or indifferent, we’d love to hear from you – please email debrief@unforgiving60.com.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
00:59 What’s an RV? (It’s been so long since we did one that we’d forgotten…)
02:05 Reflections on our discussion with Steve Biddulph
03:10 Ben’s attempts to incorporate some Steve Biddulph – and David Gillespie – advice into the Pronk household
08:10 Rick Pedley-Smith’s Rite of Passage program
12:24 Reflections on our discussion with David Gillespie, author of Teen Brain
12:50 Ben tries to describe the neurochemistry of a teenager’s brain. It is unlikely to be very accurate….
16:45 Remembering back to our chat with Dr Linda Monshizadeh and her discussion of selfie dysmorphia
17:30 Comparisons with the Netflix documentary Social Dilemma
20:15 Reflections on our chat with Marc Mexsom, founder of Community Courage
23:20 Listener feedback and questions
24:30 Feedback from Adam, the founder of Boys to the Bush – doing great work in a similar vein to Rick Pedley-Smith
25:30 Nick Kalimeris – Rite of Passage graduate and emerging musician. Links to Nik’s work below!
Music
All music on this episode is from the incredibly talented Nik Kali, musician and alumni from Rick Pedley-Smith’s Rite of Passage program. Check out Nik and his work on the links below:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nikkali_/
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/nik-kali-666320786
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2vGpmYNitxP9qA6HZ3uKfk?si=DmPHcJY3TjabUCvWl91vMA
Thursday Oct 22, 2020
Thursday Oct 22, 2020
What better cause to commit to than seriously ill children? Well, Louise Baxter is a gun leader and the inspiring CEO of Starlight Children’s Foundation. She has over 30 years' experience in marketing, sales and communication before finding her purpose in the not for profit space.
Early in her career, Louise was a member of the Sydney board of Leo Burnett Connaghan and May Advertising, NFPOnline Pty Ltd (the holding company for Livewire) and was founding partner of Brave New World Advertising. As well as working in sports marketing.
Louise has 14 years' experience at Starlight and has been Chief Executive since June 2009.
Since Louise returned as CEO Starlight has been awarded AON Hewitt Best Employer accreditation, is in the top 20 in Australia's Great Places to Work and #1 most reputable charity brand supporting children & young people. In November 2015 Louise was acknowledged by CEO Magazine as Australia's NFP Executive of the Year.
And most recently AFR BOSS Most Innovative Companies in Aus & NZ list has just been announced and............ Starlight is #1!!! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐. The list recognises the most innovative organisations in Australia and New Zealand, as judged by the expert panel assembled by The Australian Financial Review and Inventium.
How can (and will) you shine more brightly?
Donate to Starlight here . ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
03:15 Louise’s personal and professional background
09:00 Louise gets hooked at Starlight (first time around!)- as Head of Partnerships
10:30 Louise leaves for a new challenge…. albeit temporarily
13:45 What is on Louise’s internal CV? …. What people can’t see or read.
17:20 About teamwork…. And playing to team member’s strengths.
19:00 Who Louise employs ….
20:12 On authenticity…. and how it exists on a continuum.
22:15 Is it OK as a leader to not have all the answers (vulnerability).
24:40 Louise could lead any ASX200 Company- so why Starlight?
26:50 Starlight’s positive experiences to kids- an overview
28:22 Replacing pain, fear and stress .. with …fun, laughter and joy
30:00 Starlight pivots through COVID-19…. what Starlight learned.
32:15 On Starlight’s own Captains….. Captain Starlight!
35:10 Kids name the Captains ….. What militaries could learn from that!
35:40 Programs for teens and beyond and wish-granting.
39:30 Art skills for life
42:20 Case Study- Nathan Cavaleri . Child prodigy and musical superstar (and Starlight Kid). jammed with Mark Knopfler, toured with BB King, did the US talk show circuit and was a regular on Hey Hey It's Saturday. Nathan on Australian Story is here
46:30 Starlight 5 Chefs Dinner….. fun but meaningful and deep. The landscape of fundraising.
48:45 The Starlight bike ride…. and its growth. And wider fun and silliness.
51:10 What’s next……
53:20 How to find out more on Starlight.
54:40 If Louise had the ears of the world…. What would be her message to the world?
External Links
Starlight Children’s Foundation: https://starlight.org.au//
Starlight’s Program overview is here
Louise’s profile on LinkedIn is here.
Music
Thanks to all our artists who allow us use of their music. In this episode:
- The Externals – available on Spotify
- Mitchell Martin – available on Spotify …. And Mitchell's new single is here
Monday Oct 12, 2020
Monday Oct 12, 2020
Trigger Warning. At the age of 14, Marc Mexsom was sexually abused by two much older men, in positions of power over him. In this moving episode, Marc tells his story; of the impact of that event, of the turmoil of keeping this secret inside him for 22 years and of the unimaginable courage to finally speak out about it.
Within 10 days of going public, Marc founded the Australian Not-for-Profit Charity, 'Community Courage', with a stated mission to encourage and support the reporting of current and historical child sexual abuse in the Australian community and for the elimination of child sexual assault going forward. So powerfully did Marc’s story resonate with the Australian community that he was able to raise over $10,000 within the first nine hours.
Marc has over twenty years’ professional experience working across the military, custodial services and security and emergency management industry, which he also speaks to in this episode. Marc’s story is profound – at times heart-wrenching, at times hilarious and, always, inspirational.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:45 Not really knowing where to start with this conversation….we just start!
02:30 Marc’s story of being sexually abused as a 14y.o on a soccer camp
08:45 The pressure of the secret – and why Marc didn’t tell his parents
10:35 The catalyst for being able to talk about the event, after 22 years
12:00 Hitting rock bottom…and climbing back up again
13:30 Telling his mates – and the unexpected levels of support that Marc received
16:00 Marc’s series of jobs, houses and locations – and finally being able to stop
18:30 Marc’s initial decision not to go to the police about his abuse, and commencing the search for his attackers
22:00 The moment when Marc was just about to come face to face with one of his abusers – and why he didn’t, and went to the police instead
23:10 Marc’s concerns with the current state of the criminal justice system
28:00 Marc gives the police the information he’s collected on his abuser
30:25 Revenge – tactical vs strategic – and what it means to Marc
31:50 Community Courage’s goals for change – social and legislative
34:45 Are there rehabilitation programs for child sexual abusers?
36:50 Potential funding models for police child sex offence units
39:10 Starting Community Courage – the initial goal and what Marc’s learnt since then
41:00 The support received to date has included both community and professional support
45:00 How can you help if someone confides in you that they have been sexually abused?
49:20 Are there any warning signs or recommended actions we can take as parents?
53:00 Marc’s time in the Australian Army – and why it didn’t go so well
57:00 What Marc does – for himself
1:00:10 What’s next for Marc’s case and his cause
1:02:45 And in fantastic news, since recording this episode Community Courage has been approved as a Public Benevolent Institution (PBI) & Registered Charity with the Australian Charity and Not-for-Profit Commission, allowing corporate sponsorship and tax-deductibility for donations above $2.
External Links
- Community Courage, the organisation that Marc started to encourage and support the reporting of current and historical child sexual abuse in the Australian community and for the elimination of child sexual assault going forward
- Community Courage’s gofundme page
- If you need help in this area, some great resources (within Australia) include Beyond Blue, Lifeline, Kids Helpline and Crime Stoppers
Music
The Externals – available on Spotify
Atlas Chasers – available on Spotify
Monday Oct 05, 2020
Monday Oct 05, 2020
McQuilty ‘Coco’ Quirke has died three times and also been awarded the Nursing Service Cross. In this incredible interview Ben and Tim talk to a career Army medic whose life is anything but ordinary.
Coco talks about the incident where he was awarded the NSC, and life beyond into the operational theatres of Iraq and Afghanistan. It was in Afghanistan where Coco found himself blown up by a roadside bomb. After all the medic was not the one who was supposed to get hurt. In the attack, Coco suffered two shattered vertebrae, a shattered left femur, a broken left foot, broken right ankle, broken right leg below knee, a shattered left elbow, a dislocation and fracture of his right hand and traumatic brain injury. He turned 31 two days after the incident and was told he would never run again.
It was a long journey back ….. to where now Coco continues to serve (and does actually run). His selfless sense of service has now expanded to being an Ambassador for the charity Swiss8.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
08:30 Coco describes the event where he was awarded the Nursing Service Cross.
19:05 Ben talks about the Nursing Service Cross.
20:05 Going slower motion on the day of the incident…. On leadership when you don’t hold the highest rank.
25:00 A leader with no eyes …. Coco talks about leading using a radio.
28:10 Using a diary and the importance of taking notes.
33:50 Other times where Coco felt pressure- talking about a tragic and high-pressure situation in Afghanistan.
41:00 The incident where Coco found himself on the other side of receiving treatment in Afghanistan.
48:00 Combat first aiders start to work on Coco’s traumatic injuries. And then Coco shows nil signs of life.
51:40 5 hours of immediate surgery. And receiving kisses on the cheek…. then evacuated to Germany.
55:40 Waking up in Germany.
57:20 32 surgical procedures and it was the best day of his life!?
1:00:00 What Coco got out of that day?
1:02:10 Three parts to resilience in the eyes of Coco. Not one single foundation.
1:08:06 The world is small- about Swiss 8. Coco’s role as an Ambassador.
External Links
Coco’s profile on LinkedIn here
Swiss8 is a health promotion charity founded by veterans: https://swiss8.org
Music
Mitchell Martin’s - ’Hold On’ –available on Spotify . With continued thanks to Mitchell for the use of his music.
Friday Sep 25, 2020
Friday Sep 25, 2020
David Gillespie describes himself as a father of six, a recovering corporate lawyer, a former co-founder of a successful software company and the author of eight bestselling books. He is widely known for his book Sweet Poison, which he wrote after recognising that the traditional dietary advice he was being sold wasn’t working. Since then, he has written extensively on issues that are close to his heart, including his latest work Teen Brain. This fantastic book should be compulsory reading for anyone who has anything to do with a teenager – it explains in very accessible terms the chemistry of teenager’s brains and why this makes them so susceptible to addiction to the ‘porns’ of the modern tech environment – ‘danger porn’ and ‘approval porn’. In this interview, David shares with us the key points from his book, as well as some practical advice for parents to address this scary and unprecedented
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:05 The Social Dilemma on Netflix – David recommends this as a great source of information from the tech perspective on how social media applications are being deliberately designed to be addictive
04:13 David’s background, and the catalyst for writing Sweet Poison
07:30 Debunking the myth that dietary fat makes you fat – and that sugar is OK
10:30 What on earth is going on in a teenager’s brain? The biochemical answer: the importance of dopamine and GABA, and how these relate to addiction
16:30 The unique environment teenagers are facing at the moment – a drop in certain addictions, but a scary rise in new ones, enabled by smart devices
19:30 Would Steve Jobs let his kids have an iPad?
23:00 The ‘perfect storm’ of adolescent hormonal states and addictive software
23:46 The desire for risk in teenage boys, and how it is being exploited by ‘danger porn’ - online gambling and gaming
25:50 Teenage anxiety and depression rates have doubled in 10 years
27:00 How can we separate the good from the bad on our teenager’s devices?
28:20 Is anyone addicted to Microsoft Excel?!
31:10 What’s the difference between TV and social media – and how to address the question of connectivity with friends
34:20 How to parent against these challenges
36:00 The evolution of parenting styles over the last century
39:00 The relationship between demand feeding as a baby – and parental confidence later on in life
42:00 Using devices as sedatives
43:15 How we learn from our brain’s reward system
46:16 Why all babies are psychopaths
47:00 Rules: their importance and how to set them
48:05 Celia Lashlie’s outstanding book He’ll Be OK
49:50 Why parents need to harden up to save their kids
54:00 The importance of consequences – natural and imposed
55:30 Corporal punishment as a consequence?
57:15 Rite of Passage events
58:20 Why women bothered to invent men….
External Links
Music
The Externals – now available on Spotify
Thursday Sep 10, 2020
Thursday Sep 10, 2020
Part B of our special double episode with Wayne Jones. Wayne picks up where we left off last week by talking about his transition out of the military… and into life as a CEO of the ASX listed iFly Australia. Taking a lot of risks and being supported by mentors including Steve Baxter… this is the story.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:45 Intro from Tongue Charge
02:00 About the song ‘Kelly’s Last Dance … and then we play some of it.
03:50 The song ‘One Crowded Hour’, Wayne could never remember the song … and then we play some of it too.
05:45 Wayne describes the genesis of his current role as CEO of a listed company running indoor skydiving wind tunnels
08:10 Walking footpaths, belting down doors and googling ‘what is a signature block?’
12:00 After the capital raise…. time to make an indoor skydiving facility.
15:15 What is a wind tunnel?
17:42 How close is indoor skydiving to the real thing?
19:00 Jumping with weird and wonderful stuff.
21:00 Leadership differences: SAS to ASX.
24:58 The theatre of leadership: in an ASX Co.
26:30 The future of simulation and growth.
31:20 Talking resilience.
34:27 Ego and feelings.
36:30 Good habits and routine- what does Wayne do?
39:38 Breathing…. Relaxing techniques?
41:26 What’s next and settling down….. Wayne’s thoughts.
External Links
- Wayne’s company iFLY Australia – Go get involved with some indoor freefall!
Music
Tongue Charge! Recorded in various locations from Cottesloe Beach to Uruzgan Province
Contact
Get in touch with us: debrief@unforgiving60.com
Friday Sep 04, 2020
Friday Sep 04, 2020
A former SAS soldier, many people would now know Wayne Jones as the co-founder, CEO and Director of the Indoor Skydive Australia Group, an ASX listed company operating wind tunnels throughout Australia and the near region. However, prior to his success in business, Wayne honed his freefall skills within the SAS Regiment, including leading the first operational military freefall mission in the history of the Australian Army.
In this special double episode, Wayne talks to Ben and Tim about his experiences inside and outside of uniform. In this first installment, Wayne shares a little about his background in rural South Australia and his early years in the Army, including his harrowing deployment to Rwanda during which his section witnessed the atrocities of the infamous Kibeho massacre.
Wayne then reveals his SAS Selection Course secrets and describes his time within the Unit, and his multiple operational deployments, including to Iraq with the UK Special Forces in 2006.
Finally, Wayne share some insights into his career as a rock god, including what it’s like to have Angry Anderson sing backup for you!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
03:35 Wayne’s childhood – and why growing up in small town in rural South Australia can serve as a great incentive to join the Army!
06:30 Recruit training at Kapooka, then infantry training at Singleton, graduating on his 18th birthday and posting up to the 2nd Battalion….
08:15 …and into Rwanda, on his first deployment
10:30 The threat – and how confused the landscape was at that time in Rwanda. Simmering tension, hugely outnumbered – and no real chance of back-up
12:45 Wayne’s experiences at the Kibeho IDP (internally displaced personnel) camp – one of the worst massacres in recent history
16:45 The confusion of being witness to a full-scale infantry battalion assault….onto an unarmed crowd
21:50 Going back in the next day…and the importance of mateship in getting you through a situation like that
23:00 Processing atrocity – how Wayne has dealt with everything he saw at Kibeho
26:00 Musical Interlude! Ben and Wayne murdering the classic James song Laid in a B-hut in Afghanistan, circa 2008. It’s amazing the sound quality you can get recording Afghan-made nylon string guitars in a bomb-proof shipping container on an iPhone…
27:00 Back from Rwanda….and onto SAS selection. Fun Fact: Wayne was on the same selection course as F18 pilot Tim Robertson – the chronic overachiever we interviewed way back in season one!
31:00 Extrinsic motivators – after all we’ve said in previous episodes, turns out they work!
32:30 Wayne’s rules for himself during selection
35:00 Musical Interlude – Kelly’s Last Dance, a Tongue Charge tune that Wayne wrote about Ned Kelly. Or an ex-girlfriend. Or an ex-girlfriend that looked like Ned Kelly – we were never sure
35:40 Wayne’s first impression of the SAS regiment
39:00 Leadership in the SAS – and how to broker the distinction between leadership and ‘likership’
43:50 Wayne’s experience on exchange with UK Special Forces in Iraq, 2006
47:50 The genesis of Tongue Charge – SAS band, and The External’s lesser-known (and far less tuneful) little brother.
50:45 Tongue Charge’s first gig – ‘you suck!’
52:45 …and their best gig, with Angry Anderson on backing vocals
54:30 The significance of Getting Away With It, the awesome James song that Tongue Charge would end every show with
56:00 The devastating loss of Craig ‘Crackers’ Linacre – an absolute legend, and the original Tongue Charge lead singer
External Links
- Wayne’s company iFLY Australia – get involved with some indoor freefall!
Music
Tongue Charge! Recorded in various locations from Cottesloe Beach to Uruzgan Province, Afghanistan
Friday Aug 28, 2020
Friday Aug 28, 2020
Based in Byron Bay, Gary is one of the world’s leading meditation teachers, with over 15 years of experience. Gary has given elite persons, actors, personalities and the ‘normal’ amongst us, an ‘edge’ through meditation. His client list includes Jessica Gomes, Jamie Durie, Gemma Ward, Hamish Blake and many many more. More widely Gary has worked with thousands of people from all walks of life and his services are sought after by some of the world’s leading companies for his innovative meditation and mindfulness programs. He runs retreats, workshops and training Courses around the world.
We talk mindfulness v meditation. How to get into it and sustain it as a daily practice. What about breathing? And drawing value in (and from) your life. We discuss material possessions and the relevance & importance of happiness. Ben also wants to understand more about psychedelics. And Gary explains. We then talk about the importance of a guru and how to find a guru.
Get connecting with your own wisdom…. your own knowing.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 04:00 Gary’s background and how he got into meditation.
- 06:30 What is meditation?
- 12:00 What is mindfulness?
- 16:30 How does breath work mitigate stress and marginalise the Amygdala?
- 20:00 The science of neuroplasticity… habits and how we live.
- 21:05 Is meditation ‘airy fairy’… what about meditation for blokes? What’s the barriers to entry? Powerhouse humans that meditate.
- 23:30 What about time to meditate?
- 28:00 Speaking about material possessions.
- 31:05 Ben wants to understand more about psychedelics. And Gary explains….
- 39:45 Sensory deprivation. Does it assist meditation?
- 41:45 The importance of a ‘guru’ in a person’s transformation- what and why? Gary explains.
- 44:30 How do you find a guru?
- 48:00 Graham Hancock's somewhat controversial info is here
More About Garry
Music
The Atlas Chaser.... end song 'Bridges'….. music available on Spotify.
Contact Us
Disclaimer. The information and advice provided is made available in good faith and is derived from sources believed to be reliable and accurate at the time of release. However, it is not an endorsement or recommendation of any particular practice or method or substance. The information is provided solely on the basis that listeners will be responsible for making their own assessment of the matters discussed herein and are advised to seek their own medical advice and verify all relevant representations, statements and information.
Thursday Aug 20, 2020
Thursday Aug 20, 2020
In this episode, Ben and Tim reminisce about recent chats with some incredible guests, including humanitarian Beth Eggleston, plastic surgeon Linda Monshizadeh and security guru Kim Martens. And following those three amazing ladies, they bring another amazing lady, Monika Georgieva, back into the studio to ask some additional questions about the infamous SAS Selection Course, including the highs and lows, intrinsic and extrinsic motivation and self-doubt. And finally, a whole bunch of outstanding emails, questions and feedback from listeners.
As always, please let us know what you think! Good, bad or indifferent, we’d love to hear from you – email debrief@unforgiving60.com.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:45 Reflections on Beth Eggleston, including the stereotypical views of soldiers and humanitarians in a war zone.
04:15 List of famous US Peace Corps alumni
05:25 Reflections on Dr Linda; Ben reveals his preconceptions on plastic surgery going into the episode – and how it changed!
07:00 David Gillespie’s Teen Brain – great read, albeit super scary if you have teenage children!
08:49 Parallels with our recent chat with Steve Biddulph
10:30 Linda’s art. Far too talented…
11:40 Reflections on Kim Martens. Starting with the benefits of starting your professional career at a fast food joint
12:35 Out of the Western Australian Police Force…..and into Iraq!
13:45 Ben’s profound reflections on the IED threat – ‘it was messed up!’
14:30 Ben and Tim reflect on humankind’s darker side, including through the lens of Eddie Jaku’s amazing book The Happiest Man on Earth
16:00 The nature of evil – and how it might not be that far away from many people in society
17:44 Tim’s switching speed – akin to an aircraft carrier turning around
18:07 Cat’s in the Cradle – still brings a tear to Ben’s eye
19:30 Ben and Kim’s shared passion of lapping in V8s
20:30 ‘Undue noise due to method of operation’ – Ben’s first traffic infringement. Is this still a thing? Let us know – debrief@unforgiving60.com
21:30 Listener feedback - plus Ben and Tim trying to work out which of the ‘social medias’ they are on
23:00 Tegere Outdoors – veteran owned company doing fantastic outdoor gear, including space-age facial mask!
24:45 Coffee Cannon crowdfunding campaign – get behind it!
28:00 Unforgiving60 reading list. Coming soon. We think.
30:00 Back by popular demand – Monika Georgieva! Live in the studio
31:00 Only weirdos enjoy the SAS selection course
31:30 Mon’s best bit on selection
34:22 Mon’s lowest point on selection
38:00 Ben’s lowest point on selection. Involving chickens
40:50 Physical and mental preparedness
43:15 Tim’s physical training journal. Not a weighty tome
45:30 Specialisation. It’s for insects.
46:40 Life lessons from the selection course
48:30 Intrinsic and extrinsic motivators – finding the right balance
55:30 Life imitating art – Ben’s selection course-like experience on operations in Afghanistan
1:03:15 An email from Pucka! With some great reflections on creating a safe-to-fail environment in training
External Links
- Tegere – Gear for your Soul
- The Coffee Cannon Pod Pistol: Magazine Fed, Bolt Action caffeine. Support it through its crowdfunding campaign
- Kev Toonen – trainer at 98 Gym, and host of the 98 Gym Podcast
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify
Thursday Aug 13, 2020
Thursday Aug 13, 2020
We couldn’t get enough into the first episode (Season 2 Epi 8) so here is the sequel. Another episode with David Olney -the smartest guy in the room on solving complex and wicked problems. In this episode we talk collaboration and innovation. Why is doctrinal thinking rewarded and how can we break paradigms.
David lectures on applied thinking, complex problem solving, philosophies of violence, group psychology, terrorism, strategic culture, and the clash of civilizations. He knows plenty of stuff.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 04:00 Why we are back again
- 06:05 David’s question of Ben and Tim on collaboration in the SAS
- 08:45 Tim provides a rare useful insight on constrained thinking & indoctrination
- 12:20 David responds on latitudes and orthodoxy
- 14:10 How we task people. How that influences latitudes
- 16:20 Communications technology, ‘surveillance over your people’ and conscious capitalism
- 17:00 The Southwest airline example and trust
- 17:55 What should we be doing to incentivise collaborative communication?
- 20:29 On mission focus and breaking down silos. Don’t let people talk! ‘Nominal group technique’
- 23:20 Tim’s question to David and Ben. A hypothetical on whether Stanley McChrystal would have passed doctrinal training with him ‘Team of Teams’
- 26:30 Why wait to innovate? Fixation on knowledge… not learning
- 28:25 Artificial worlds and wargaming
- 33:00 Now is the time for ‘anything goes’
- 36:10 Tactical exercises without troops & tests
- 38:45 What about corporate to military to corporate lessons learned
- 41:10 The frictions in modern day operations
- 44:15 Good leadership…… how?
Blind Insights (Podcast): Link here
Music
The Externals …. End song is ‘Pain’ is now available on Spotify.
Contact Us