Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
Episodes
Friday Aug 28, 2020
Friday Aug 28, 2020
Based in Byron Bay, Gary is one of the world’s leading meditation teachers, with over 15 years of experience. Gary has given elite persons, actors, personalities and the ‘normal’ amongst us, an ‘edge’ through meditation. His client list includes Jessica Gomes, Jamie Durie, Gemma Ward, Hamish Blake and many many more. More widely Gary has worked with thousands of people from all walks of life and his services are sought after by some of the world’s leading companies for his innovative meditation and mindfulness programs. He runs retreats, workshops and training Courses around the world.
We talk mindfulness v meditation. How to get into it and sustain it as a daily practice. What about breathing? And drawing value in (and from) your life. We discuss material possessions and the relevance & importance of happiness. Ben also wants to understand more about psychedelics. And Gary explains. We then talk about the importance of a guru and how to find a guru.
Get connecting with your own wisdom…. your own knowing.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 04:00 Gary’s background and how he got into meditation.
- 06:30 What is meditation?
- 12:00 What is mindfulness?
- 16:30 How does breath work mitigate stress and marginalise the Amygdala?
- 20:00 The science of neuroplasticity… habits and how we live.
- 21:05 Is meditation ‘airy fairy’… what about meditation for blokes? What’s the barriers to entry? Powerhouse humans that meditate.
- 23:30 What about time to meditate?
- 28:00 Speaking about material possessions.
- 31:05 Ben wants to understand more about psychedelics. And Gary explains….
- 39:45 Sensory deprivation. Does it assist meditation?
- 41:45 The importance of a ‘guru’ in a person’s transformation- what and why? Gary explains.
- 44:30 How do you find a guru?
- 48:00 Graham Hancock's somewhat controversial info is here
More About Garry
Music
The Atlas Chaser.... end song 'Bridges'….. music available on Spotify.
Contact Us
Disclaimer. The information and advice provided is made available in good faith and is derived from sources believed to be reliable and accurate at the time of release. However, it is not an endorsement or recommendation of any particular practice or method or substance. The information is provided solely on the basis that listeners will be responsible for making their own assessment of the matters discussed herein and are advised to seek their own medical advice and verify all relevant representations, statements and information.
Thursday Aug 20, 2020
Thursday Aug 20, 2020
In this episode, Ben and Tim reminisce about recent chats with some incredible guests, including humanitarian Beth Eggleston, plastic surgeon Linda Monshizadeh and security guru Kim Martens. And following those three amazing ladies, they bring another amazing lady, Monika Georgieva, back into the studio to ask some additional questions about the infamous SAS Selection Course, including the highs and lows, intrinsic and extrinsic motivation and self-doubt. And finally, a whole bunch of outstanding emails, questions and feedback from listeners.
As always, please let us know what you think! Good, bad or indifferent, we’d love to hear from you – email debrief@unforgiving60.com.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:45 Reflections on Beth Eggleston, including the stereotypical views of soldiers and humanitarians in a war zone.
04:15 List of famous US Peace Corps alumni
05:25 Reflections on Dr Linda; Ben reveals his preconceptions on plastic surgery going into the episode – and how it changed!
07:00 David Gillespie’s Teen Brain – great read, albeit super scary if you have teenage children!
08:49 Parallels with our recent chat with Steve Biddulph
10:30 Linda’s art. Far too talented…
11:40 Reflections on Kim Martens. Starting with the benefits of starting your professional career at a fast food joint
12:35 Out of the Western Australian Police Force…..and into Iraq!
13:45 Ben’s profound reflections on the IED threat – ‘it was messed up!’
14:30 Ben and Tim reflect on humankind’s darker side, including through the lens of Eddie Jaku’s amazing book The Happiest Man on Earth
16:00 The nature of evil – and how it might not be that far away from many people in society
17:44 Tim’s switching speed – akin to an aircraft carrier turning around
18:07 Cat’s in the Cradle – still brings a tear to Ben’s eye
19:30 Ben and Kim’s shared passion of lapping in V8s
20:30 ‘Undue noise due to method of operation’ – Ben’s first traffic infringement. Is this still a thing? Let us know – debrief@unforgiving60.com
21:30 Listener feedback - plus Ben and Tim trying to work out which of the ‘social medias’ they are on
23:00 Tegere Outdoors – veteran owned company doing fantastic outdoor gear, including space-age facial mask!
24:45 Coffee Cannon crowdfunding campaign – get behind it!
28:00 Unforgiving60 reading list. Coming soon. We think.
30:00 Back by popular demand – Monika Georgieva! Live in the studio
31:00 Only weirdos enjoy the SAS selection course
31:30 Mon’s best bit on selection
34:22 Mon’s lowest point on selection
38:00 Ben’s lowest point on selection. Involving chickens
40:50 Physical and mental preparedness
43:15 Tim’s physical training journal. Not a weighty tome
45:30 Specialisation. It’s for insects.
46:40 Life lessons from the selection course
48:30 Intrinsic and extrinsic motivators – finding the right balance
55:30 Life imitating art – Ben’s selection course-like experience on operations in Afghanistan
1:03:15 An email from Pucka! With some great reflections on creating a safe-to-fail environment in training
External Links
- Tegere – Gear for your Soul
- The Coffee Cannon Pod Pistol: Magazine Fed, Bolt Action caffeine. Support it through its crowdfunding campaign
- Kev Toonen – trainer at 98 Gym, and host of the 98 Gym Podcast
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify
Thursday Aug 13, 2020
Thursday Aug 13, 2020
We couldn’t get enough into the first episode (Season 2 Epi 8) so here is the sequel. Another episode with David Olney -the smartest guy in the room on solving complex and wicked problems. In this episode we talk collaboration and innovation. Why is doctrinal thinking rewarded and how can we break paradigms.
David lectures on applied thinking, complex problem solving, philosophies of violence, group psychology, terrorism, strategic culture, and the clash of civilizations. He knows plenty of stuff.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 04:00 Why we are back again
- 06:05 David’s question of Ben and Tim on collaboration in the SAS
- 08:45 Tim provides a rare useful insight on constrained thinking & indoctrination
- 12:20 David responds on latitudes and orthodoxy
- 14:10 How we task people. How that influences latitudes
- 16:20 Communications technology, ‘surveillance over your people’ and conscious capitalism
- 17:00 The Southwest airline example and trust
- 17:55 What should we be doing to incentivise collaborative communication?
- 20:29 On mission focus and breaking down silos. Don’t let people talk! ‘Nominal group technique’
- 23:20 Tim’s question to David and Ben. A hypothetical on whether Stanley McChrystal would have passed doctrinal training with him ‘Team of Teams’
- 26:30 Why wait to innovate? Fixation on knowledge… not learning
- 28:25 Artificial worlds and wargaming
- 33:00 Now is the time for ‘anything goes’
- 36:10 Tactical exercises without troops & tests
- 38:45 What about corporate to military to corporate lessons learned
- 41:10 The frictions in modern day operations
- 44:15 Good leadership…… how?
Blind Insights (Podcast): Link here
Music
The Externals …. End song is ‘Pain’ is now available on Spotify.
Contact Us
Thursday Aug 06, 2020
Thursday Aug 06, 2020
Rick Pedley-Smith is a good man. And, through his selfless work in developing and running the Rite of Passage Boys’ Program, he’s helping to make more good men. Rick began his career in 1997 as a classroom teacher in Sydney before heading to the UK where he worked as a classroom teacher and outdoor education coordinator for an ‘Emotional & Behavioural Disorder Unit’ in West London.
Then for the past 16 years, Rick has worked at one of Sydney’s largest high schools.
The Rite of Passage Boys’ Program is Rick’s initiative which aims to re-engage and support boys who are considered ‘at-risk’. Through the program, the team conducts overnight camps, treks and challenges to help develop resilience, self-esteem and a culture of positive masculinity. His program utilises physical as well as social and emotional challenges to develop self-awareness and a sense of purpose in the boys.
As part of this, Rick has implemented numerous wellbeing initiatives that have led the community to raise over $19,000 for the Commando Welfare Trust and for villages along the Kokoda Track.
In this chat, Ben and Tim explore how Rick came to start Rite of Passage, and his intent to re-appropriate the concept of initiation into manhood. He describes the development of the program, tells some amazing stories of the successful outcomes that have been achieved and talks to the very deliberate steps they have put in place to avoid the program creating an exclusionary ‘boys club’.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
04:00 Rick’s background, growing up in the Southern Highlands of NSW and getting into teaching
07:40 Working in the UK with troubled children
09:50 How full is your balloon? A great thought experiment that Rick uses to highlight the cumulative impacts of stress
14:00 What emotions do most teenage boys feel they can show? (Spoiler alert: vulnerability is not one of them)
15:50 The importance of not confusing kindness with weakness
17:00 The Rite of Passage program
18:00 Imposter Syndrome as a parent (we’ve all been there!)
19:45 The term ‘rite of passage’ and its relevance in the modern world
22:00 Influence from a mutual friend - Fenno
24:05 ‘True leaders don’t create followers, they create more leaders’
25:30 How Rick designed his program….and the importance of physicality as a component
28:50 The importance of debriefing within the Rite of Passage program
31:10 How to create a ‘band of brothers’ without it turning exclusionary or toxic
35:50 Positive flow-on effects from the program into wider schoolwork
39:20 The role of literature in Rite of Passage – Kipling and Heinlein; great stuff!
43:45 The importance of empathy within the concept of manhood
45:00 Recommended reading within the program, including Mark Donaldson VC’s The Crossroad – and Mark’s involvement in the program
47:40 The importance of showing boys what a good man looks like – particularly for children who may never have seen one up close
51:10 How are fathers responding to the program?
54:15 The Rite of Passage association with the Australian Commando Association
56:00 Rick’s definition of success for the program
58:40 How to find out more about Rick and the Rite of Passage program (see below)
External Links
- Rick’s bio
- Rick’s Facebook page
- Some additional information on Rite of Passage
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify (plus a bit of Ben’s guitar work, recorded in the bathroom of one of Saddam’s palaces in Tikrit, Iraq!)
Contact Us @ the Unforgiving60 Podcast!
Thursday Jul 23, 2020
Thursday Jul 23, 2020
Tim and Ben have previously drawn extensively on Dave Snowden’s material as a means of sense-making in complex environments. And here he is in person (virtually). In particular, Snowden’s Cynefin (pronounced ‘kin-ev-in’) framework has proven consistently to be an incredibly useful and intuitive sense-making tool for leaders in all contexts.
In the period of heightened COVID-19 risk it has been highly instructional to the management teams that Tim and Ben work with.
In this episode, Dave joins us from the UK and speaks to not only Cynefin, but also complexity.
BYO notebook for the knowledge from this one!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
03:20 Dave and Ben’s first meeting at the SAS Regiment back
04:00 Dave provides an overview of his Cynefin framework
04:50 The domains – simple, complicated, complex and chaotic
09:20 Leading in complex environments – parallel probes
11:25 Every intervention into a complex system fundamentally changes it
12:00 ‘Nudges’ towards ‘adjacent possibles’ – stepping stones towards better results. An alternative to trying to predict the future
13:45 The key to operating in complexity – know where you are and the rough direction you want to head
14:20 What can you control in a complex system?
17:00 Negative boundaries – teaching through failure, not success
18:20 Commander’s Intent – ‘metaphorical examples with counter-factuals’ – Dave’s Gettysburg example, taken from his time at DARPA
22:25 Are contemporary Western militaries doing ‘mission command’ well?
23:25 The Black Lives Matter protests through a Cynefin lens
27:00 Using ‘trios’ to validate decision-making in complexity
28:45 Neuroplasticity and its impacts in various stages in life
32:20 Why Dave got thrown out of the Pentagon
34:50 Human-mediated wargames: ‘far more malicious’
36:30 Ben on the benefits of Dave’s visit to the Australian SAS in 2009
39:00 Dave’s work with Peter Drucker
40:00 COVID-19 as a ‘Black Elephant’ – a cross between a Black Swan and the elephant in the room
43:15 The importance of narrative and storytelling
48:10 Using anecdotes to increase resilience
50:20 The importance of experience in training
51:30 COVID-19 – who got it right: the economists or the doctors?
52:30 Dave’s prognosis for contemporary political leadership
External Links
- Dave’s company website Cognitive Edge
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify (plus a bit of Ben’s guitar work, recorded in the bathroom of one of Saddam’s palaces in Tikrit, Iraq!)
Thursday Jul 16, 2020
Thursday Jul 16, 2020
Phil M Jones is one of the world’s best salespersons. But Phil admits that his success is related to his ability to only do three things. Phil’s started understanding ‘the art of sales’ with a car wash at the age of 14 when he discovered he was earning more than his school teachers. So, as a result he limited his time going to school!
Phil was the youngest Sales Manager in the history of UK fashion retailer Debenhams. He then worked with UK Premier League Football Clubs on negotiating sponsorships and licensing agreements, to then being a key part of growing a £240 million property business.
Phil has delivered over 2,500 presentations in 57 countries across five continents, training more than two million people to learn how to have more influence, confidence and control when steering their conversations.
He has written multiple best-selling books with his book 'Exactly What to Say' being the #1 most listened to book on Audible, with over 700,000 copies sold and having been translated into 29 other languages.
Also check out the video version of the interview on YouTube.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 03:00. About Phil and car cleaning business at age 14 years old.
- 04:15. The youngest even sales manager at Debenhams and beyond….
- 05:00. 2008 was a pivot point for Phil’s keynote speaking.
- 05:55. Phil’s success is related to his ability to only do three things.
- 08:50. Success in selling anything is…..
- 11:15. About ‘motivation’ in leading, influencing or selling.
- 12:00. Sales or Business Development?
- 13:00. Phil turns the interview around.
- 17:20. Sales requires courage. And what about telling a story?
- 22:00. The most important thing to the person you are talking to.
- 23:20. Phil’s example of a professional icebreaker introduction.
- 26:45. Phil’s story of a pen…. Shifting motivation and desire.
- 30:10. Is it OK to manipulate people through the sales process?
- 32:45. The theatre of leadership…. Being on stage. How?
- 36:55. Using the room as a prop. Phil’s room… right now!
- 48:50. Dealing with sales rejection and failures.
- 52:22. The ‘persistent’ sales person. Is there a place for it?
- 1:00:50. Quick Questions/ Quick Answers.
More on Phil: www.philmjones.com
Phil’s Social Media:
Music
All music courtesy of The Externals including the end track: ‘The Day The Sun Forgot To Shine’ …. available on Spotify
Contact Us
Thursday Jul 09, 2020
Thursday Jul 09, 2020
Kim Martens is a high-risk expert in intelligence and security risk management who has worked extensively in hostile environments. She has been attacked by rockets, mortars and improvised explosive devices in Iraq. She’s even hard core enough to even have proposed to her love in Iraq! And then stood beside that same fiancée after he was later blown up in Iraq.
After her first career in the police Kim was one of the first female close protection operators into Iraq. She then worked with the United Nations and the Australian Diplomatic Mission in Iraq before returning to Australia as an analyst.
We talk KFC and falling in love at KFC, cars, policing and the gold town of Kalgoorlie. Then into Iraq and being attacked on the infamous
Kim has a Bachelor of Counter Terrorism, Security and Intelligence, a Postgraduate Certificate in Intelligence and Terrorism and a Postgraduate Certificate in Intelligence Management / Islamic Studies.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 03:00. About Kim
- 05:00. Wanting to be a police officer ….. but leaving home at 15 years old to work at KFC
- 06:20. Rockingham cars. Strictly V8.
- 08:12. Romance can blossom in a KFC.
- 09:20. Joining the Police (at last …. 7 years later!).
- 11:20. Into the gold town of Kalgoorlie.
- 13:30. Headbutted in Kalgoorlie. And an apology.
- 14:00. Heading into Iraq.
- 16:25. Learning in Iraq…. And falling in love.
- 18:30. How to propose to a guy in Iraq.
- 21:04. Out to Karrada District in Baghdad.
- 22:20. Another female close protection operator is discovered in Baghdad!
- 24:00. Advice on female operators in high risk environments.
- 28:00. Kim talks about ‘imposter syndrome’ and overcoming it.
- 29:00. Kim is attacked on Route Irish (Airport Road) in Baghdad.
- 31:30. Kim’s fiancée is hit by a vehicle borne improvised explosive device (VBIED).
- 37:45. The value of study to complement Kim’s practical experience.
Music
Spacers are Ben Pronk recorded live in Baghdad …
The Externals, Anastacia’s Hand …. available on Spotify
Contact
Social Media:
Thursday Jul 02, 2020
Thursday Jul 02, 2020
Dr Linda Monshizadeh is a refugee (and triplet!) who spent her early childhood in Iran before her family moved to Australia. She excelled at school and ended up studying medicine, later specialising in plastic surgery.
In this episode, Linda talks about plastic surgery and her specialty – cranio-maxillofacial surgery – before reflecting on the overemphasis being placed on physical beauty in today’s society, exacerbated by social media. Linda provides an amazing perspective on ‘selfie dysmorphia’ and how it’s resulting in people seeking surgical intervention to try to look more like a filtered social media photo.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
02:50 Linda’s childhood – as a refugee and triplet!
04:00 Why Linda’s family left Iran
05:00 A year in Pakistan, then to Australia
06:45 The drawbacks of learning English from black and white cowboy movies!
10:00 On being a triplet (spoiler alert: they can’t actually read each other’s minds!)
12:00 Moving West
12:50 Acceptance into medicine
14:50 The secret for success at medical school – consistency and discipline
15:50 Ben tries to get a free plastic surgery consultation – for Tim!
16:20 The origins of plastic surgery, during World War One
20:30 Linda’s medical training
23:15 Why Linda chose her specialty – cranio-maxillofacial surgery
24:00 The overemphasis of physical beauty in today’s society
24:30 The fine line between restoration and enhancements for plastic surgeons
28:20 The rising scourge of ‘selfie dysmorphia’
32:00 On ego
37:10 Plastic surgery and cosmetic surgery – the important difference
43:00 Ben and Tim show their age – and their ignorance – by asking if the surgical procedure in the 1997 movie Face/Off is possible. Disappointingly, it is not.
43:22 Linda’s art and her generous donations in support of the Royal Australian Navy Clearance Diver Trust
47:00 An example of Linda’s incredible art
53:45 Quick Questions / Quick Answers
External Links
- Linda’s Instagram page
- The Australian Navy Clearance Diver Trust
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify
Thursday Jun 25, 2020
Thursday Jun 25, 2020
Beth Eggleston is a Fulbright Scholar with over twenty years of experience in humanitarian coordination in a range of peace operations and humanitarian response contexts, working alongside host governments, local and international NGOs, and the United Nations.
We discuss the frictions between humanitarian operations and military operations.
Beth has field experience in Afghanistan, Liberia, Tonga, Costa Rica, Laos PDR, Timor-Leste, and Vietnam and has been on short-term deployments to Pakistan, Solomon Islands, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka. Whilst working with the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UN OCHA) in Afghanistan for several years, Beth developed civil-military guidance, policy on interaction with Provincial Reconstruction Teams (PRTs) and was involved in rolling out humanitarian reform, including the cluster approach.
Beth has co-authored publications on the protection of humanitarian personnel, peace and development in Iraq, the Women, Peace & Security Agenda and was a member of the drafting team of Same Space Different Mandates: a civil-military guide to Australian stakeholders in international disaster and conflict response. Beth’s most recent publications include the chapter ‘Humanitarian Values and Military Objectives’ in Ethics Under Fire: Challenges for the Australian Army, and Humanitarian Civil-Military Coordination in Emergencies.
Beth has a Master of Development Studies and is a graduate of the Humanitarian Leadership Program. In 2011 Beth was awarded the Humanitarian Overseas Service Medal by the Australian government and she is currently serving on the Victorian Divisional Advisory Board of the Australian Red Cross.
Beth co-founded the Humanitarian Advisory Group (HAG) in 2012. After surviving the bureaucracy of large INGOs and the UN, she now enjoys working with a small team to deliver leading-edge research and advice to enable the humanitarian sector to perform at its best.
In 2019 Beth undertook her Fulbright Scholarship at the US Naval War College undertaking research with the Civilian-Military Humanitarian Response Program.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 03:00. About Beth.
- 04:00. About being a ‘HAG’.
- 05:20. The ‘HAG’ acronym was no accident. And why it is not a dirty word.
- 07:00. What’s the most challenging humanitarian environment to work in.
- 09:50. Lessons from the Tamil Security Situation
- 11:48. Where is the line between defense and offence in overseas operations?
- 14:00. Tim hijacks the conversation and talks Sierra Leone…. Why didn’t the NGOs want anything to do with him?
- 19:50. NGOs and their strength inside communities (unlike militaries)
- 24:50. What’s the tipping point between agile NGOs and bureaucracy and lethargy.
- 36:49. The Fulbright Scholarship…. Tim shows his ignorance.
- 37:28. Tim has no clue. Beth needs to explain. Tim starts googling.
- 42:10. Tim’s google of Fulbright Scholars.
- 55:00. Militaries and mental health and advocates.
- 55:55. Quick Questions/ Quick Answers.
More on Beth & HAG
https://humanitarianadvisorygroup.org
Music
The Externals … music available on Spotify
Thanks to The Externals for the use of their music.
Monday Jun 22, 2020
Monday Jun 22, 2020
In this episode, Tim and Ben look back on their discussions with David Olney, Dr Kate Baecher and the amazing guests from their special Tempus Fugit double episode, before turning a very critical eye on their own performance in Alex Lloyd’s Life on the Line podcast.
As always, please let us know what you think! Good, bad or indifferent, we’d love to hear from you – please email debrief@unforgiving60.com.
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
01:30 Reflections on Dave Olney
01:40 How we first came to be introduced to Dave Olney – through one of his university students
02:30 Dave Olney on Dave Grossman
05:17 Dave Olney’s podcast Blind Insights – a cracking listen!
05:38 Tim and Ben discuss the potential of joining Dave on an episode of his ‘Blind Drunk Insights’ – potentially the only way they’ll be able to keep up with him intellectually
06:30 Reflections on Kate Baecher
07:00 Ben and Tim’s confessions regarding Dr Kate’s apple cider vinegar (ACV) prescription
07:50 Tim’s groundbreaking medical opinion on breathing
08:50 Ben talks about the main source of stress in his work life
09:20 Dr Kate’s advice on overcoming fear
10:00 Fear, sensory overload and innoculation
11:20 Psychology as part of a front-line emergency health care effort
12:24 Rock climbing: overcoming fear and flow states
14:35 Reflections on Tim Reynolds
15:22 The importance of family – even when you’re not facing a terminal prognosis
16:40 Tim Reynolds’ involvement in art as therapy
17:30 Link to the Unforgiving60 Instagram page, which features Tim Reynolds’ amazing portrait of Cameron Baird VC
18:37 Reflections on CPL Matt Williams OAM
19:20 Why Willy stood us up for the podcast
21:40 Ben and Tim on Ben and Tim on Life on the Line
23:30 Tim on his famous (potentially stolen) quote ‘Would you hire you?’
24:25 Ben and Time on ego (this is what Skyhooks think on the topic)
25:30 Imposter syndrome
27:30 Ben: “Different interactions with different people are going to have different results”. Profound….
28:30 Child soldiers – a really confronting concept
29:30 Ben and Tim debate how much Tim is worth – in terms of bounty and/or ransom
32:30 Update on Heather Taylor
34:00 ‘AIS’ actually stands for Automatic Identification System
36:00 Tim (non-Water Operator) talks a big game about sea-sickness. Ben (Water Operator) on his chronic sea-sickness.
37:30 What’s coming up next on the Unforgiving60?
37:45 Ben’s request for an Externals song as an outro – US Radio
External Links
- Dave Olney’s podcast Blind Insights
- Dr Kate Baecher’s business ElysiumHP
- MAPA – the Military Art Program Australia
- @willybeatingcancer – Matt Williams OAM’s Instagram page
- Alex Lloyd’s brilliant Life on the Line podcast
- Heather Taylor’s Pacific Giants Row
Music
The Externals … Available on Spotify (plus a bit of Ben’s guitar work, recorded in the bathroom of one of Saddam’s palaces in Tikrit, Iraq!)