Two ex-special operations guys armed with MBAs seek out people leading lives less ordinary, in order to find out how they fill their ‘unforgiving minutes’, and what helps them go, always, a little further. Like intellectual bowerbirds, we collect shiny little objects of knowledge that will help build better humans. Co-hosted by Ben Pronk and Tim Curtis.
Episodes
Thursday Nov 28, 2019
Thursday Nov 28, 2019
Tim and Ben like jobs where you can drink at work. This week they get to do just that during their interview with Jimmy McKeown in the ‘Black Room’ of Whipper Snapper Distillery. Whipper Snapper is fast becoming a well-known brand amongst whiskey lovers and the go-to drink for many, and in this episode, Jimmy talks us through its amazing origins – and his equally amazing personal story. From an illegal moonshine still run by a World War II bomber pilot to being recognised as a certified ‘Icon of Whiskey’, the Whipper Snapper story is a cracker.
Jimmy discusses his attitude towards risk and regret, both of which served as catalytic elements in starting the distillery, before taking us through the ingredients and distilling process. He then talks about their range of spirits, from their flagship 'Upshot' to more experimental lines including quinoa whiskey, the soon-to-be released red corn whiskey and – of course – their 'Crazy Uncle Moonshine'. If you don't know who your crazy uncle is ... then it's you!
Tellingly, one thing that Jimmy doesn’t talk about is the fact that he had – just the week prior to the interview – been named as Master Distiller of the Year in the Icons of Whisky 2020 Australian awards. Truly humble, a truly great bloke and a truly tasty drop of whiskey – enjoy!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 02:00 – Jimmy’s early years
- 06:45 – Vic’s story – Lancaster bombers and illegal moonshine
- 09:15 – Ben makes up some statistics about WWII Bomber Command attrition rates
- 10:25 – Jimmy on risk and avoiding regret
- 13:45 – What is an Australian whiskey? Jimmy talks grain and flavour profiles and the dream of making an Australian whiskey at scale
- 16:30 – “Full disclosure”
- 17:10- On the ‘microfactors’ that help make Whipper Snapper different to mass produced whiskey
- 18:30 – What goes into Whipper Snapper’s whiskey?
- 21:20 – Red Corn whiskey (coming soon!) – a crazy idea which highlights Whipper Snapper’s close relationship with its grain growers
- XX:XX - Does anyone actually read the timeline in the Show Notes?!
- 23:20 – How to make whiskey
- 33:20 – The story behind the Whipper Snapper’s logo – and its name!
- 39:40 – Quinoa whiskey – superfood!
- 45:10 – The whiskey environment in Australia
- 51:20- Signature Whipper Snapper cocktails
- 53:50 – Marketing Whipper Snapper
- 56:30- The Special Operations relationship
- 1:02:00- How many stories could be tyold over a glass of Upshot
- 1:03:00:– Quick Questions / Quick Answers!
- 1:08:00- Jimmy’s favourite quote: From CS Lewis.
- 1:09:23 – Jimmy’s toast to the entire world!
About Whipper Snapper
https://whippersnapperdistillery.com/
Music
As always music by The Externals. Hear more of The Externals on Spotify.
Thursday Nov 14, 2019
Thursday Nov 14, 2019
Tim and Ben use this RV to cast their minds back over their recent chats with Richard Baker, Maxine Brown (for the ‘Returned and Services League’ (RSL)) and adventurer Alyssa Azar. We then talk about Ben and Tim’s Everests. And that includes discussing poignant moments on SAS Selection and looking death in the face while climbing Mawson’s Peak, an active volcano, on the sub antarctic Heard Island.
Shamelessly riding on the coat-tails of Richard’s much better podcast The Last Voyage of the Pong Su, the boys talk about what a pleasure it was to speak with him and to share their experiences, which is one small component of Richard’s cracking and far-reaching exploration into the incident. On ‘shades of grey’ and what is a ‘bad person’ and promoting reductionist views which means polarising views and opinions.
Ben then struggles to explain what ‘RSL’ stands for as they recount their discussion on mateship in an interview with the RSL’s Maxine Brown. When they eventually work it out, they talk a little bit more about the importance of mateship and maybe even displaying a little bit of vulnerability from time to time, and provide an insight into their stint as cover models for the RSL magazine.
They finish the episode by talking about Everests – both literal and metaphorical. Literal, in their discussion about the amazing chat with super-inspirational Australian mountaineer Alyssa Azar; and metaphorical, through describing their own individual ‘Everests’.
We hope you enjoy this RV and it in some small way, that it helps you go ‘a little further’ in filling your own Unforgiving60s.
Get in touch with us at debrief@unforgiving60.com
Music from the original SAS Band, The Externals..... check them out on Spotify!!
Monday Nov 11, 2019
Monday Nov 11, 2019
Despite Alyssa first summiting Everest at 19 years old, this is much more than a climbing story. It is a story of setbacks and challenges, tenacity and toughness and staring down death; but most importantly why you don’t ever give up on your dreams.
‘Control what I can control and accept everything else’- Alyssa
Alyssa is the youngest Australian to Summit Mt Everest. She did this at 19 years old on the 21st May 2016. Not being content with that, two years later Alyssa also became the youngest woman to summit Mt Everest from the North Side (Tibet) at just 21 years old.
Her story began early. She walked the challenging Kokoda Track in Papua New Guinea at the age of 8. By 10 years old, she had climbed ‘the Aussie 10’ (the 10 highest peaks in Australia). At 14 she climbed Mt Kilimanjaro.
And she has never looked back…. Or down!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 03:00. How it all began
- 05:03. Things in common- Alyssa, Ben and Tim
- 06:04. Alyssa’s unconventional schooling
- 07:11. No crying in boxing!
- 11:30. Why Alyssa took a photo of her brother to the summit of Everest
- 12:15. Alyssa on ex SAS soldier and author Keith Fennell.
- 13:40. Ben on ‘Fenno’ and similarities with Alyssa
- 14:50. Keith Fennell talks about Alyssa
- 21:15 Final climb before Everest
- 22:10 First setback- Everest 2014 at age 17
- 25:13. Second setback- Everest 2015 at age 18. Near death experience
- 30:08. Building resilience through these setbacks
- 33:00. Third attempt on Everest!
- 34:40. Starting for the Summit. Avalanche! Toughest day on Everest
- 36:55. At Camp 4. South Col. The summit push
- 38:20. It all came down to this day (Summit Day)
- 42:27. South Summit to Hillary’s Step …. and onto the Summit
- 44:15. Time stands still…. The world at her feet
- 46:30. Sponsors, pressure and expectation
- 47:45. Arriving home!
- 51:20. Going back! (to climb Everest again)
- 01:01:20. Thoughts on ‘peak bagging’ Everest
- 01:02:30. A past comment on Alyssa as being ‘very distant and unapproachable’
- 01:03:10. Other interests…
- 01:06:40. Quick Questions/ Quick Answers
- What are you scared of?
- What’s your favourite book? (Sorry Keith Fennell!)
- Who inspires you?
- What’s the best climbing movie ever made?
- How do you train?
- What’s your guilty pleasure?
- What do you watch on Netflix?
- What’s still left that interests you?
- 01:10:28. Final Comment from Alyssa
More about Alyssa Azar
https://www.facebook.com/AlyssaAzarAdventurer/
Alyssa’s Book- The Girl Who Climbed Everest:
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/32178778-the-girl-who-climbed-everest
More about Keith Fennell, ex SAS Soldier and Author
https://www.penguin.com.au/authors/keith-fennell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2127g8baC8
Music
As always from the original SAS band, ‘The Externals’
Find The Externals on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0bzIKc5TQaJ0DxuVhoCmg0?si=6Nmt5VTLRdeNnTzYash8gQ
Tuesday Nov 05, 2019
Tuesday Nov 05, 2019
Ben said that they should never talk about this again. Plus this was never supposed to be a podcast.
So.......
More unauthorised audio!
This starts as a interview on 'Mateship' by Maxine Brown from the Returned and Services League (RSL).... but then it takes some unexpected turns.
Ben and Tim talk:
- 'Mateship'
- Them Meeting
- Starting a business
- Risk taking
- Family
- That Napkin!
- The importance of silly hats
- Having difficult questions early
- When did you know 'he' was a mate?
- ... And a very difficult question from Maxine: 'Can you describe each other in one sentence?'
PS: No one should talk about this.... ever!
More About the RSL
Thursday Oct 10, 2019
Thursday Oct 10, 2019
Richard Baker is one of Australia’s most decorated investigative journalists. He has five Walkley Awards and 15 Melbourne Press Club Quill Awards. Embracing the medium of podcasts, his last two series won global and national awards.
In 2016, he created and co-hosted a major investigative podcast series called Phoebe’s Fall, which led to legislative changes in Victoria, Australia. The series attracted millions of downloads, and won a Gold Medal award at the NYE Festivals in 2017.
Richard’s second podcast series, Wrong Skin won the Australian Podcast of the Year in 2019!
In Richard's wider work, he has covered topics ranging from international corruption, crime, drugs in sport, the justice system, politics, and sexual abuse.
This year Richard released a podcast series entitled “The Last Voyage of the Pong Su”, which (unfortunately for Richard) collided his path with Ben and Tim! It’s an action movie podcast…. And it’s available now!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 00:00. Ben’s excellent research skills
- 04:00. The quick guide to winning multiple awards as a journalist
- 06:55. What’s the skill in writing to communicate a story?
- 11:01. The tension between storytelling, entertainment and news.
- 13:05. Attention spans and journalism.
- 14:45. On social media as an entry point.
- 16:15. The importance of a headline?
- 19:02. Competition means ‘it’s got to sing’.
- 20:22. Is there such thing as bad investigative journalism.
- 22:50. The new medium of podcast. Good for investigative journalism?
- 25:20. The podcast format- correlations with the 1940s?
- 26:50. The community of downloaders and awards.
- 29:00. The new series that brought Richard together with Ben and Tim
- 29:50. What was it like on the North Korean Drug vessel the MV PONG SU?
- 34:00. Is there black and whites? About ‘shades of grey’.
- 40:00. What the drug ship did well… and poorly.
- 46:30. Quick Questions/ Quick Answers!
About Richard
https://www.theage.com.au/by/richard-baker-hve6o
The Last Voyage of the PONG SU
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-last-voyage-of-the-pong-su/id1481166968
Music
As always music by: The Externals. 'US Radio' (available on spotify)
Thursday Oct 03, 2019
Thursday Oct 03, 2019
In this RV, Tim and Ben reflect back on the recent interviews with Jim Molan, Sam Penny and Jack Moshovis. In the course of this, Ben tries to remember when the MV Tampa incident occurred and provides some reflections from his perspective as a troop commander during this operation, following which Tim and Ben offer some extremely shallowly-researched thoughts on boredom.
Per convention, they also use the RV to field some great questions from listeners, starting with more attacks on Ben’s dress and bearing, this time from a previous platoon sergeant who is extremely disappointed to note Ben’s slip in grooming standards since leaving the military. They also debate whether 'work-life balance’ is actually achievable, and Tim challenges us to swap the word ‘busy’ with ‘focused’ in our lexicon.
And finally, Ben continues his very average track record of mispronunciation while trying to name-drop academics (for note, the researcher he was struggling to remember was Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (pronounced ‘cheek-sent-me-high’) who pioneered the concept of ‘flow’) and reflects on how enjoyable it is to interrupt Tim in the middle of a ‘pomodoro’.
Enjoy the RV and - as always - we wish you luck in filling your own Unforgiving60s with some quality distance run. Just get started!
**Music by our great friends at The Externals (available on Spotify)
Thursday Sep 26, 2019
Thursday Sep 26, 2019
Jack Moshovis was always mechanically minded. He used to look up at aeroplanes with fascination as a kid and ponder who built and maintained them and, indeed, how they flew. He always had some sort of a project going in his younger years and unsurprisingly after finishing high school he got an apprenticeship working as a mechanic on Air Force aircraft … learning his craft on high performance military lead-in fighter aircraft.
Fast forward a few years, Jack got an opportunity to be in the business of aviation. He committed to being a business owner. So what do you do when you come to work and the hangar is cleaned out by your business partner- including everything in the fridge!?
You start again!
Jack has worked with the Red Bull Air Race World Champion- Matt Hall. In fact Matt Hall described Jack as ‘a life saver’. Of course we talk with Jack about Matt and the Red Bull Air Race.
And then you fall in love …. with a high performance aircraft. You hug it every day- literally. And when the Company comes up for sale. But you don’t have the money. What do you do?
Jack explains what he did.
He now owns MX Aircraft.
This is a great chat with a great bloke!
Let’s get on with the show!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
00:00- Let’s start with Amateur Hour!
02:15- How it started…. The meeting and the history
06:00- What the reward is…
06:25- Jack’s favourite thing to work on
08:20- Jack and World Champion Matt Hall…. Matt described Jack as ‘a life saver’
11:50- How technical is Matt Hall?
13:50- Jack on The Red Bull Air Race
15:10- On his first failure, regret and let down... and what you do about it
19:10- The MX high performance aerobatic aircraft
20:15- Why you hug an aircraft as a mechanic!
21:00- ‘One day I’m going to own you’- Jack M
24:00- The MX types….
26:25- The teething problems (fatalities!) …. & what Jack did.
33:12- Tim’s aerobatic proficiency! And what this amateur has flown!
36:45- Sales and marketing
37:50- Quick Questions/ Quick Answers ….. to Jack
- How important is family?
- Definition of happiness?
- What are you reading?
- Last good movie?
- Choice of food?
- Favourite holiday destination?
- If you could change one thing in the aviation industry?
- The future of aviation?
- 4th Industrial Revolution…. And aviation maintenance
Website and Links
Rob Holland and his MX Aircraft:
Music
As always…. Courtesy of 'The Externals' …. Available on Spotify
Thursday Sep 19, 2019
Thursday Sep 19, 2019
Sam Penny is a father, cheesemonger, civil engineer and endurance athlete who is currently training to conduct a DOUBLE crossing of the English Channel. Looking at his physical accomplishments – which in addition to Channel crossings, include the conduct of a Backyard Ultra running race and swimming a mile in ice water - you could be forgiven for thinking that he’s some kind of superhuman. But, as we find out in this interview, Sam is a refreshingly normal guy who likes to set lofty goals and then work towards them - one step (or stroke!) at a time.
In this discussion, we find out how Sam does this, as well as how he deals with the physical and mental discomfort associated with endurance feats of this kind. We also learn about his greatest fear and how he overcomes this through a deliberate action plan, and ponder why the cheese is so good in Vanuatu.
Just count to 10!
Enjoy the show!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
2:07 The excellence of cheese in Vanuatu
4:30 Sam’s early athletic career, including his triathlon days and the dangers of a life of complacency
7:30 How Sam got into swimming and ocean racing
9:20 Sam’s early fascination with swimming the English Channel
10:00 Preparation for the channel swim
13:00 How modern life breeds complacency and takes away our ability to dream
15:30 Sam discusses goal setting, both long- and short-term
17:45 What does a training program for a double English Channel crossing look like?
19:40 Shutting off your mind during long distance swimming
22:40 “I didn’t come this far only to come this far”- Tom Brady
23:40 Last One Standing – Sam does a Backyard Ultra
29:30 The mental barrier of crossing the channel and how Sam overcame this
31:10 Ben asks the big questions – in a double crossing, is it compulsory to tumble-turn at France?!
33:25 Sam talks his goal time for the double crossing
35:32 How do you rest when swimming for the best part of a full day?
38:30 Chats from the Chest Fridge – why Sam sits in a converted freezer full of ice water
41:30 Controlling breathing in ice-cold water
43:07 The Ice Mile – the most stupid thing Sam has ever done
52:07 Sam talks heart rate – and reveals his very impressive resting heart rate!
55:30 Sam’s shark attack action plan
1:00:30 Sam’s definition of happiness
Website
Thursday Sep 12, 2019
Thursday Sep 12, 2019
General Jim Molan, AO, DSC is a former soldier, diplomat, author and speaker. We explore all things from why 'Andrew' is called 'Jim' through to winning the war in Iraq, border security and national energy policy.
Of course we go low-brow too!
Jim has unfinished business in Australian politics. He explains why!
Unbeknownst to Jim, we personally selected 'General Jim's' close protection team leader in 2004.... and we have some inside information on General Jim! We share it too!
As always we continue to show learned insubordination to our highest ranking former military officer!
PS: Apologies for the audio quality ..... as you know we suck at podcasting!
Intelligence Summary (INTSUM)
- 3:45. Speaking Tok Pisin! Papua New Guinean 'Tok Ples'. A Young Jim in the Pacific Islands Regiment.
- 5:40. Jim gets warned!
- 6:10. Tim talks Henry Kissinger!
- 6:40. What Jim is most proud of.
- 12:00. What Jim is least proud of.
- 14:00. On styles of leadership.
- 17:40. Kipling's world.
- 18:45. The human part of leadership.... and a lack of hubris.
- 19:40. General Jim on East Timor.... what would he have done differently (hindsight)?
- 21:41. Clausewitz and Jim. War is politics by other means.
- 25:45. Is politics, war by other means?
- 28:05. 2004 Iraq. Stories from Jim's SAS Close Protection Team Leader
- 33:00. 2004 Iraq (cont'd). When there is an SAS guy involved.... the walls have ears! Stories from the walls!
- 36:39. Why Jim's SAS Close Protection Team didn't let him nap!
- 38:15. Leadership advice to any junior leader
- 44:25. The battlefield of politics.
- 49:25. The future of Jim in politics? Paraphrasing Churchill......
- 50:00. On border security.
- 52:40. On energy security.
- 55:10. Quick Questions/ Quick Answers (kinda!).
- 58:38. Who Jim invites to his dinner party (living or dead).
- 1:01.00. The final say (and appropriately).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Molan
https://twitter.com/jimmolan?lang=en
Music By: The Externals (as always!!!!)...... check them out on Spotify
Thursday Sep 05, 2019
Thursday Sep 05, 2019
As the RV concept hits the meteoric height of double figures, Ben and Tim talk about their interviews with Susan Saleeba and Chris Collard, reflecting on topics ranging from gentle African words to getting punched in the head by a world champion.
They then field a number of fantastic listener questions, which sees the conversation switching from a discussion of arrogance and sociopathy straight to pondering who was the GOAT (greatest of all time) servant leader!
Ben also speaks to some of his unfortunate historical fashion choices, including addressing allegations that he used to get around in a leather vest and a Mustang, while Tim talks about failure, foibles and regrets.
Amongst all this, the boys discuss a great new method of passing a little piece of goodwill to someone, through Phil Hayes-St Clair’s Be in Motion project.
And, in a departure from the normal The Externals outro music, Ben and Tim finish this RV with a very special recital of Banjo Patterson’s The Man From Snowy River from recent guest and all-round good guy Sans Tattoo.
*****
email: debrief@unforgiving60.com
social media: @unforgiving60 #unforgiving60